Thundermax vs twin tec with autotune ???

[475wildey]

Has anyone had any experience with either of these systems ??? since they both have closed loop dual o2's and self tune which is the better choice ???

[GRock]

The newest DTT also has self adjustments on the timing. The boys at DTT have been making great changes with that unit over the years and it shows.

[475wildey]

The newest DTT also has self adjustments on the timing. The boys at DTT have been making great changes with that unit over the years and it shows.

G..... have you installed one ???

[GRock]

G..... have you installed one ???

Been installing the TCFI for four years now. Have over 60 installs and over 100 maps for quite a few combos. Done four T-Maxes. Have the TCFI on my own scoot.

[SeDeluxe]

how much do you have to know about efi to install one of these on a bike GROCK. i have been wondering for some time now if i should go with one. does the bike have to be dynoed like a sert??
Steve has talked me into getting a Skinney Kitten for exhaust insted of the pro pipe, i could easily get a 07 model with the bungs in it. where on the bike do you mount the wego and is it needed?? you know most tuners in my area cannot tune so im wondering if im opeaning a can of worms here. But i did talk to a guy in NY (JOES) about the tuning and he also recomended the dtt. any input will be helpful.
George

[475wildey]

how much do you have to know about efi to install one of these on a bike GROCK. i have been wondering for some time now if i should go with one. does the bike have to be dynoed like a sert??
Steve has talked me into getting a Skinney Kitten for exhaust insted of the pro pipe, i could easily get a 07 model with the bungs in it. where on the bike do you mount the wego and is it needed?? you know most tuners in my area cannot tune so im wondering if im opeaning a can of worms here. But i did talk to a guy in NY (JOES) about the tuning and he also recomended the dtt. any input will be helpful.
George


not suppose to need dyno tune with it thats why for Iam thinkin about it around these here parts aint no tuners worth:fart:

[475wildey]

Been installing the TCFI for four years now. Have over 60 installs and over 100 maps for quite a few combos. Done four T-Maxes. Have the TCFI on my own scoot.

I paricularly like that it adjusts the timming as well since Ive had to do that on my own up untill now seems its above the heads of most tuners......................and they call us Doof's:roflback:

[GRock]

Some basic wiring and need to install the AF sensors in the backside of the pipes up near the exhaust ports, using bungs welded into the pipe. (Not sure, but the FATCATS may be available with the bungs already in. Not a big deal for install though. As for timing, there are lots of pre-set timing maps that have different advance slopes that you can try, also. And this unit will get you over 90% optimum with a little hand smoothing of the cells for AFR and some tweaking. Seen them with a few ponies and pounds left, but not a big deal. Of course, I know that won't pass muster with you
OCD MF's that won't sleep at night if you know there are 4 HP left to be had!!!

G

[SeDeluxe]

G im sure i could live with the 90% tune i just want the thing to run right.
its definatly something to look into may be not a cure all but then again what is.

[jasilva]

Guys, I just put the TCFI on my bike last month. Really easy to install and it works great. I had to bug GRock a couple times with minor tuning questions but all in all simple. My bike runs worlds better than it ever did with the PC III. Starts instantly and the power is great. The only downside is you have to wait for a minute or so after cold start for it to go into closed loop before riding away. Plus like 475 said NO MORE DYNO-RIP OFF.

Oh by the way the Zipper's unit is a re-packaged TCFI. T-max owners get all worked up and deny it but if you check the DTT site thoroughly you'll find the support info for it there.

Joe

[HDWRENCH]

Daytona only makes the ign systems for ZIppers. I spoke to allen on this, Zippers has thunder heart make the EFI parts for them.

[jasilva]

Daytona only makes the ign systems for ZIppers. I spoke to allen on this, Zippers has thunder heart make the EFI parts for them.

:Smart: Here I am confusing people and making sales for you and you got to muddy the waters with good sound information.:nono:

Plus I really didn't know that Daytona didn't make the T-max. They even look similar.

Joe

[SeDeluxe]

ok so let me ask another dum question :whistling: is it worth it??? might be something i would want to look at later in the year. you know its gonna be hard to get a new t/b,pipe and dtt passed the wife all at once. or is using the sert with a good tuner just as good????

[jasilva]

ok so let me ask another dum question :whistling: is it worth it??? might be something i would want to look at later in the year. you know its gonna be hard to get a new t/b,pipe and dtt passed the wife all at once. or is using the sert with a good tuner just as good????

Depends on what your tuner charges you I guess. The TCFI will run you around 8 bills. In CA that's only a couple of tunes by a good SERT tuner. So if you make many changes then it definitely is worth it. Another nice feature is the ability to download trouble codes and data log and check engine parameters in real time.

Joe

[SeDeluxe]

so how do you go about getting maps for specific cams like a woods tw8,615/585,tw6hg and so on. does the dtt have maps close to these cam and cylinder combos??? ill see if i can clear it up. Lets say you have a set up like mine HD HTCC CNC heads,stock t/b,615/585 cam ,98in cylinders how would you go about getting a starting point for the dtt.

now lets say you want to change cams same build but with a woods tw8 will it make adjustments to the ecm its self or would you have to make changes to help it along by usinr the afr guage and timing adjustments.

does the dtt automatically adjust for overscavenging in a 2 into 1 pipe like a t-header or skinney kitten???

[GRock]

The biggest thing about the DTT is to get start and idle parameters in line. If you do that you are well on your way. The DTT comes with maps that can get you started and you can change the parameters for HP, dual runner TB, injector size, etc. Now, the bike may start but run like shitt or it may be pretty close, but the BLM will start changing the main maps and you will simply download the changes into the main fuel maps. Each time you ride, you will get much closer to optimal tune. Once you have that set up optimized, then the change of a cam or a pipe is nothing that is out of whack and the DTT will make the quick fine tunes for it the same way. Obviously, if you go from a 95 to a 117 with all different components then you will basically have to start from scratch, but you will be able to get it done. The new TCFI also has the function for auto cylinder trim offset and will get you timing adjustments too. Much more user friendly than the old stuff and much more accurate with faster readbacks.

[HDWRENCH]

We can get a 124 tuned for 13.5 up to 3500 for break in , with a basic map and upload the injectors size, and what you think the hp level will be in less than 30 miles. We will heat cycle the engine fist, once hot set the we go back and make sure tps and IAC is correct, if not make it right, then go for a ride. 6-8 miles come back and re load the blm, do this a few times and you will see in the data log / and blm maps how you are doing. From there you can start smoothing the tables by hand if you are having trouble in a certain area. It really goes very smooth. It beat the heck out of the other tuners in my opinion. And yes all the new fat cats do have the dual bungs

[Scabbydoo]

In the FWIW department, Morri55 has the Zippers GenI unit which is a two piece system. There is a new GenII unit that is an "all-in-one" unit with no additional modules to try and find a place to hide.

[mori55]

I switched mine over to the Gen ll and it runs great. I don't know much about the twin tec but my autotune couldn't be easier to use and setup.
It's like you get ready for this big install and hook up the laptop and run the wires and then your about done. I know i said to myself is this it ? Bike runs better than ever, i don't know about dyno #'s and don't care, that was the reason i got this unit. For the guys who want to play around with it , you can do that too.
I really don't see how my bike could run much better unless i put my 2-1 pipe back on.
Zippers auto tune also comes with canned maps to get you close or you can build your own map. They have a list of different cams , heads, exhaust,etc. If it doesnt have your make cam or heads you pick what is "close" and it will auto tune.
Zippers has a bunch of different maps so you should be able to find something close.
What I'm trying to tell you guys, this is really simple and easy to do , if you want to make it harder than it is go ahead, but it kinda defeats the purpose if your going to buy this, then go dyno crazy. Might as well keep your SERTS and ***** about not being able to find a good tuner.
The problem is most of us don't have guys like Grock or Steve to tune are bikes, what most of us have are a bunch of hacks that put a canned map in and call it good for 250.00.
Like i said my bike runs GREAT.

[michael101]

Guys.....

If I already have SERT, will adding the Twin Scan II+ give me everything I need as opposed to buying the whole DTT setup?

[thrasher]

Guys.....

If I already have SERT, will adding the Twin Scan II+ give me everything I need as opposed to buying the whole DTT setup?

I have a PC3 on my bike right now and was wondering the same thing.

The documentation for the Twin Scan II+ on the DTT website basically infers that it does not operate in a "closed loop" system. Rather its an "open loop" system in that the Twin Scan II+ would log data as you ride and generate correction factors. These correction factors would have to be manually put into the SERT or PC3 map by the user (ie: its a manual process). Long story short, for the system to operate "closed loop", you'd need the TCFI2D. I've some more technical reading to do on the TCFI2 kit, but it appears to be just what I'm after, as I see more mods to my bike down the road.

Links for both products are below. Daytona TwinTech's websites are a bit convoluted the way they have them organized (I was reading the older one for a while). The main site is: http://www.daytona-twintec.com, and not the other one.

The instructions for the Twin Scan II are here: http://www.daytona-sensors.com/download/Twin_Scan2_Instructions.pdf

The tuning instructions for the TCFI2D are here: http://www.daytona-twintec.com/download/TCFI2D_Tuning_Manual.pdf

[Dirty Dan]

I stopped by an indy shop last Saturday to ask about having some motor work done and the Thunder Max was his recommendation.

I read through all 70+ pages of the sticky down the road about the Zipper's unit and all seem to rave about it. "Its the best money I've ever spent on my bike, BUT...

...it pops on decel
...I get 35 MPG
...warning codes get thrown
...idiot lights are flashing
...I have to adjust the accel thing with my laptop
...I got it wet and it quit

I'm not trying to snipe you mori55, refute our other resident experts, or say anything negative about these products. But I have no experience hopping up HDs...

...so I'm wondering - I don't seem to see such oddities associated with a SERT/dyno tune. Further, the phrase "90% tune" has been tossed about in reference to these auto-tune boxes. Even an average tuner should be able to squeeze out 90% on a dyno...so you get 90% either way.

The above said, and leaving "eliminates multiple dyno tunes" from the discussion, why not just run the SERT...or are these auto-tune boxes so good that the quirks won't bug me? Some of that stuff...no, all of that stuff, sounds annoying to me.

This is a timely thread for me...thanks to everybody for their input.

[KTWillys]

morning all... got a question for you all... installed the DTT on my 04 Road Glide and it is starting and working ... all good.. but I do not have any power to my gauges on the dash.. thinking I left a connection loose or off but they worked before the DTT was installed..... Idea's...

[jasilva]

morning all... got a question for you all... installed the DTT on my 04 Road Glide and it is starting and working ... all good.. but I do not have any power to my gauges on the dash.. thinking I left a connection loose or off but they worked before the DTT was installed..... Idea's...

Check all of your ground wires for good contact on the frame?


Joe

[KTWillys]

Check all of your ground wires for good contact on the frame?


Joe

Yep,, a couple of times but will do so again... just to be extra sure.. I am blonde after all...
All the stuff worked fine until the change over.. hope it is something simple..
Thanks,,,

[jasilva]

One other thought KT, when I connected the WEGO on mine I blew the accessory fuse and had to up the size by a couple amps. Depending on what circuit you connected to you may have blown one.


Joe

[alperin1]

I stopped by an indy shop last Saturday to ask about having some motor work done and the Thunder Max was his recommendation.

I read through all 70+ pages of the sticky down the road about the Zipper's unit and all seem to rave about it. "Its the best money I've ever spent on my bike, BUT...

...it pops on decel
...I get 35 MPG
...warning codes get thrown
...idiot lights are flashing
...I have to adjust the accel thing with my laptop
...I got it wet and it quit

I'm not trying to snipe you mori55, refute our other resident experts, or say anything negative about these products. But I have no experience hopping up HDs...

...so I'm wondering - I don't seem to see such oddities associated with a SERT/dyno tune. Further, the phrase "90% tune" has been tossed about in reference to these auto-tune boxes. Even an average tuner should be able to squeeze out 90% on a dyno...so you get 90% either way.

The above said, and leaving "eliminates multiple dyno tunes" from the discussion, why not just run the SERT...or are these auto-tune boxes so good that the quirks won't bug me? Some of that stuff...no, all of that stuff, sounds annoying to me.

This is a timely thread for me...thanks to everybody for their input.

The above problems do exist, however not as frequently as it sounds. I have had the unit for a while now and yes, my MPG did take a hit, I am slowly makeing adjustments to get it back up and I am without losing anything(seat of pants dyno).

I have to say the TMAX will get you more than 90%, I have been waiting for a trip and will have the bike on a dyno to see how well it has done.

Most of the lights that everyone is talking about are not issue but a lack of reading about how the TMAX does a self check, if you will.

This thing is not perfrect, but it will tune your bike better than the average tuner at all throttle positions and if anything changes on your bike, it will accomodate the change and tune as needed. This is why most of use have the TMAX, we like to change things on the bike and we do not want to go to a dyno each time.

If you go with the SERT, you have to have the tools to see what is happing and then make the adjustment, with the TMAX it has these tools, atleast for AFR. The SERT will allow more setting to be changed, but myself, I am not versed in EFI that well to want to play with the SERT.

[KTWillys]

One other thought KT, when I connected the WEGO on mine I blew the accessory fuse and had to up the size by a couple amps. Depending on what circuit you connected to you may have blown one.


Joe

Thanks Joe,, I will check that in about an hour or so,. good one...
Kevin

[meanbean]

I just got my DTT IID / WEGO idle tuning correct on my 98 GMR build. I consider myself to be pretty good with software but it took me a couple of evenings to figure it out. I do not consider myself good at all with engine tuning and EFI. The process with the DTT works like this:
RTFM
Set it up right.
Idle it through some heat cycles and get the idle right.
Ride it, it learns and stores the data.
Download the data from the bike to your computer.
Save it in a folder.
Upload it back to the bike.
Do this repeatedly through the RPM range of your riding style.

I'm still doing break in miles on my build so I will have to put the DTT through the learning process again after it's broken in.

Things that are crucial are free air calibration of the O2 sensors and setting the throttle position sensor to .4 volts. The manual says .3 to .8 volts but the software and everybody who is in the know says .4 is the magic number. It made a big difference on my bike going from .5 to .4.

bbrownclods (down the street) is very knowledgeble and always willing to help.

I'll post up as I go through the tuning process.

Whew that was long...........

[thrasher]

I just got my DTT IID / WEGO idle tuning correct on my 98 GMR build. I consider myself to be pretty good with software but it took me a couple of evenings to figure it out. I do not consider myself good at all with engine tuning and EFI. The process with the DTT works like this:
RTFM
Set it up right.
Idle it through some heat cycles and get the idle right.
Ride it, it learns and stores the data.
Download the data from the bike to your computer.
Save it in a folder.
Upload it back to the bike.
Do this repeatedly through the RPM range of your riding style.

I'm still doing break in miles on my build so I will have to put the DTT through the learning process again after it's broken in.

Things that are crucial are free air calibration of the O2 sensors and setting the throttle position sensor to .4 volts. The manual says .3 to .8 volts but the software and everybody who is in the know says .4 is the magic number. It made a big difference on my bike going from .5 to .4.

bbrownclods (down the street) is very knowledgeble and always willing to help.

I'll post up as I go through the tuning process.

Whew that was long...........


Thanks for the detailed post. I'll be headed in the same direction as you soon enough, so this is all very helpful.