10,000 mile oil change

[george douglas]

Guys, here is a post from teh vtwinforum.com site.

10,000 mile oil analysis

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I changed to syn oil at 30,000 miles. I was told this oil would go 10,000 miles or 12 months, whichever comes first. I was very hesitant to go this long on an oil change but thought I would give it a shot and have it analyzed at the next oil change. I got my report back today. I have looked up what all this means but I do not know the parameters that I should be in. I have an 05 RoadKing, eng had 40,000 when the sample was sent in.

Brand: AMSOIL 20w-50 syn
Oil age: 10,000 miles

Lubrication Data:
Contamination Rating: Normal
Equipment Rating: Normal
Oil Rating: Normal
Viscosity @ 100C: 19.2
SAE Viscosity Grade: 50
Oxidation (Ab/cm): 2
Soot (wt%): 0.17
Water (Vol%): Not Detected

Wear Elements:
Ag(silver): 0ppm
Al(Aluminum): 3ppm
Cr(Chromium): 0ppm
Cu(copper): 15ppm
Fe(iron): 9ppm
Mo(molybdenum): 33ppm
Ni(nickel): 0ppm
Pb(lead): 0ppm
Sn(tin): 0ppm

Contaminant Elements:
B(boron): 25ppm
K(potassium): 0ppm
Na(sodium): 4ppm
Si(silicon): 4ppm
V(vanadium): 0ppm

Keep in mind I only added 1/2 qt of oil at about 7500 miles during the 10,000 miles.
I am going to continue with this program but for peace of mind I am going to change the oil filter at 5000 miles, and a full change at 10,000 miles.

Any oil readers out there?
Thanks,STEVE

george

[71baldboy]

Thankyou George.

[george douglas]

Guys, here is a post from teh vtwinforum.com site.

10,000 mile oil analysis

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I changed to syn oil at 30,000 miles. I was told this oil would go 10,000 miles or 12 months, whichever comes first. I was very hesitant to go this long on an oil change but thought I would give it a shot and have it analyzed at the next oil change. I got my report back today. I have looked up what all this means but I do not know the parameters that I should be in. I have an 05 RoadKing, eng had 40,000 when the sample was sent in.

Brand: AMSOIL 20w-50 syn
Oil age: 10,000 miles

Lubrication Data:
Contamination Rating: Normal
Equipment Rating: Normal
Oil Rating: Normal
Viscosity @ 100C: 19.2
SAE Viscosity Grade: 50
Oxidation (Ab/cm): 2
Soot (wt%): 0.17
Water (Vol%): Not Detected

Wear Elements:
Ag(silver): 0ppm
Al(Aluminum): 3ppm
Cr(Chromium): 0ppm
Cu(copper): 15ppm
Fe(iron): 9ppm
Mo(molybdenum): 33ppm
Ni(nickel): 0ppm
Pb(lead): 0ppm
Sn(tin): 0ppm

Contaminant Elements:
B(boron): 25ppm
K(potassium): 0ppm
Na(sodium): 4ppm
Si(silicon): 4ppm
V(vanadium): 0ppm

Keep in mind I only added 1/2 qt of oil at about 7500 miles during the 10,000 miles.
I am going to continue with this program but for peace of mind I am going to change the oil filter at 5000 miles, and a full change at 10,000 miles.

Any oil readers out there?
Thanks,STEVE

george

This is my response after many guys stated that you can't do it and you should keep changing your oil often.

Guys,
If you ran water in your bike and it didn't create any wear would that be wrong? If oil protects your machinery the whole time it is in your motor, whether it is 2500, 5,000, or 10,000 miles, it has done it's work.

Some of you have this repitious oil changes no matter what ingrained in your preventive maintenance mind and no matter what the facts here state some how it doesn't compute. Big oil has done a great job over the years of getting into our pockets needlessly, especially when using better than average oils. Jiffy lube for example has told their franchisees that to enhance their bottom line they have to get people to change their oil at 3,000 miles or sooner no matter what the OEM's state in their manuals. There are not many oils on the market that need to be changed that often period!

This oil report is not an exception, as I have another one at 9721 miles that is nearly as good. Do any of you realize that this sample has less total wear on it than most other samples at 3,000 miles. Keep in mind that wear metals are accumulative and keep adding up as the miles are put on. Also keep in mind that these wear metals are sub-micron in size and do no harm circulating through the oil system.

I have been doing one year oil changes in all my street vehicles now for 27 years and have never wore anything out yet.
george

[Scabbydoo]

Interesting but like the poster, don't have a point of reference to compare to for analysis.

[HARLET]

This is my response after many guys stated that you can't do it and you should keep changing your oil often.

Guys,
If you ran water in your bike and it didn't create any wear would that be wrong? If oil protects your machinery the whole time it is in your motor, whether it is 2500, 5,000, or 10,000 miles, it has done it's work.

Some of you have this repitious oil changes no matter what ingrained in your preventive maintenance mind and no matter what the facts here state some how it doesn't compute. Big oil has done a great job over the years of getting into our pockets needlessly, especially when using better than average oils. Jiffy lube for example has told their franchisees that to enhance their bottom line they have to get people to change their oil at 3,000 miles or sooner no matter what the OEM's state in their manuals. There are not many oils on the market that need to be changed that often period!

This oil report is not an exception, as I have another one at 9721 miles that is nearly as good. Do any of you realize that this sample has less total wear on it than most other samples at 3,000 miles. Keep in mind that wear metals are accumulative and keep adding up as the miles are put on. Also keep in mind that these wear metals are sub-micron in size and do no harm circulating through the oil system.

I have been doing one year oil changes in all my street vehicles now for 27 years and have never wore anything out yet.
george

theres a mater of slug build up .i have torn down engines that people don't do oil changes every 3 to 4000 thousand miles and there engines are full of slug which will start causing pour oil circulation from ports beginning to plug .. its your machine do as you wish but as for mine ,every 3000 miles is the treat of the day . the best gas ,the best tires , wax, the best treatment .She is my Girl Why cheap out now :nope:

[Geezer-Glide]

Sludge. From Wikapedia...........

Oil sludge or black sludge is a solid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid) or gel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gel) in motor oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil) caused by the oil gelling or solidifying, usually at temperatures lower than 100 degrees Celsius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celsius). Sludge can be a major contributor to engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine) problems, and can require the engine to be replaced if the damage is severe. Sludge is usually caused by the presence of water (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water) in the oil, and can accumulate with use. Ways to minimize sludge production and accumulation include performing frequent oil changes, using synthetic oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil), and following the manufacturer's engine maintenance routine.

(red bold is my addition)

Since Amsoil is PURE synthetic, then prolonged miles are no problem. Water is usually a result of not allowing the motor to come up to full operating temp before shutting down. Your oil needs to reach 100C (212*F) before any condensation will burn off. This is less of a problem in the summer than it is in the cooler months. Since I've been running Amsoil I have not noticed any condensation/water in my oil. It used to gather on the oil dipstick, but I haven't had any in a long time now, and I ride year 'round.


In the above chart you'll notice that the viscosity is still 50wt. Dino oil's viscosity breaks down after a while, and that's why you loose lubrication.
And keep in mind that the MoCo's Syn3 is not PURE synthetic, it's still dino/mineral based. Thats why you can use it in a new motor for break in. You shoud NOT use a pure syn to seat the rings in a new motor.

I'm sure they'll be disagreements, and that's OK.

[george douglas]

Interesting but like the poster, don't have a point of reference to compare to for analysis.

There is one for comparison right here in this section with Mobil V-twin oil. Take a look. I have several with other oils and everyone of them sheared back to a 40 weight. Even the Mobil product sheared back some. This doesn't mean that the oil is not protecting well as many of the samples at 3 to 5,000 miles looked good.
george

[george douglas]

theres a mater of slug build up .i have torn down engines that people don't do oil changes every 3 to 4000 thousand miles and there engines are full of slug which will start causing pour oil circulation from ports beginning to plug .. its your machine do as you wish but as for mine ,every 3000 miles is the treat of the day . the best gas ,the best tires , wax, the best treatment .She is my Girl Why cheap out now :nope:

Sludge in todays motors are mostly caused from defects in the motor no matter if you change your oil every other day. Many class action suites going on as we speak. Going back 20 years ago I would agree with you, but not with todays oils and machinery. Keep in mind that I am not trying to get everyone to stop changing their oil, as I make more money with short oil change intervals just like big oil does. Wouldn't it be nice to not have to worry about changing your oil say at 5,000 miles if it wasn't convenient while on a long trip and you had to push it to 6,000 miles for example?
george

[Highmiles]

Sludge. From Wikapedia...........

Oil sludge or black sludge is a solid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid) or gel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gel) in motor oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil) caused by the oil gelling or solidifying, usually at temperatures lower than 100 degrees Celsius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celsius). Sludge can be a major contributor to engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine) problems, and can require the engine to be replaced if the damage is severe. Sludge is usually caused by the presence of water (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water) in the oil, and can accumulate with use. Ways to minimize sludge production and accumulation include performing frequent oil changes, using synthetic oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil), and following the manufacturer's engine maintenance routine.

(red bold is my addition)

Since Amsoil is PURE synthetic, then prolonged miles are no problem. Water is usually a result of not allowing the motor to come up to full operating temp before shutting down. Your oil needs to reach 100C (212*F) before any condensation will burn off. This is less of a problem in the summer than it is in the cooler months. Since I've been running Amsoil I have not noticed any condensation/water in my oil. It used to gather on the oil dipstick, but I haven't had any in a long time now, and I ride year 'round.


In the above chart you'll notice that the viscosity is still 50wt. Dino oil's viscosity breaks down after a while, and that's why you loose lubrication.
And keep in mind that the MoCo's Syn3 is not PURE synthetic, it's still dino/mineral based. Thats why you can use it in a new motor for break in. You shoud NOT use a pure syn to seat the rings in a new motor.

I'm sure they'll be disagreements, and that's OK.

:iagree:

100%

[Fe Butte]

Sludge in todays motors are mostly caused from defects in the motor no matter if you change your oil every other day. Many class action suites going on as we speak. Going back 20 years ago I would agree with you, but not with todays oils and machinery. Keep in mind that I am not trying to get everyone to stop changing their oil, as I make more money with short oil change intervals just like big oil does. Wouldn't it be nice to not have to worry about changing your oil say at 5,000 miles if it wasn't convenient while on a long trip and you had to push it to 6,000 miles for example?
george

Yep that's why I run full synthetic in mine. It will make me pucker knowing it's gone past the Mfrg's recomended mileage but as long as it's to the full mark and still running will be OK. But the worry wart is in full swing in my head...

Sludge is caused by not getting fully up to operating temperatures in most cases.

People here in town that drive to work about 1-3 miles and use Mobile 1, the oil looks like siht, it never warms up enough to burn off all the junk that gets in it from not getting up to operating temperatures.
And they let it idle about 20 minutes in the winter to "warm it up' when it's in the 10's or lower.

[HARLET]

Sludge in todays motors are mostly caused from defects in the motor no matter if you change your oil every other day. Many class action suites going on as we speak. Going back 20 years ago I would agree with you, but not with todays oils and machinery. Keep in mind that I am not trying to get everyone to stop changing their oil, as I make more money with short oil change intervals just like big oil does. Wouldn't it be nice to not have to worry about changing your oil say at 5,000 miles if it wasn't convenient while on a long trip and you had to push it to 6,000 miles for example?
george

I'm sorry i have to disagree . tear two engine down that have 100,000 mile's on them . one serviced every 3000, one every 10,000 you will have discoloration of the metal ,slug billed up and not from moister .now I'm not saying the engine will run bad but it's not going to preform 100 percent . I'm sorry I'm old school this is one thing i wont change on I'm still doing engine work and turning wrench's ,proper and timely service is 99 percent of the battle of the up keep and keeping expense's down on repairs



let me clarify the statement above , i was referring to the engine serviced every 10,000 miles .boy I'm A doof

[Berserker]

No expert, and speaking from bowels, alot of engines don't see enough miles to matter. By the time you hit 100k miles on your bike, there are other factors that effect it too.

I change my oil around 5k, I save the recepipts for my warranty. But I don't worry about it to much, since I bet you could run the same oil for the warranty period and be fine. it may effect in the long run, but not during the warranty.

When is the last time you heard of an engine failing do to poor oil circulation? I dont know what the answer is on that.

[route66paul]

The problem with the twincam engine is that the built in bypass on the filter will just bypass the oil if the filter is even close to being clogged, it has been stated here that some oil filters don't even let the oil through at all, and all of the oil is bypassed. If your filter is working properly, you would only have to worry about oil breakdown, but if the bypass is on, you are just circulating dirty oil. The old non-detergent oil would allow some of the particles to settle at the bottom of the pan, but since we run a filter, we need the detergent action. I would like to see a light or something that would tell me when the oil is being bypassed.

[HARLET]

iv had a couple Friends have pump failure due to poor oil circulation , they were out of warranty . one was an 02 glide with 45.000 on her the other was a 05 ultra with 67,000 .both were told it was due to lack of maintains . they weren't big fans of syn oils they are now .

[Chevtek]

At present I am running the HD syn but will be getting in touch with George for some amsoil. I am a profesional tech. ASE ceritfied (for whatever thats worth)I have been employeed by General Motors for 13 years at the same dealership and independent shops before that.
Granted I am in the automotive field but I will tell you I can almost tell everytime I tear an engine down what they have been using and its a no brainer to tell if they do their maintenance. Not to start any wars but Pennzoil is the worst. It becomes flakes that clog oil passeges in the intake valley thus leading to lower oil volume at the crank.
With the HD syn I have not seen anything major during my services which I have been doing at 1k 5k and 10k, however I beleive I can get more with Amsoil

[fxr4mikey]

I'm going Amsoil when I get back from my trip (leaving Monday) .......... will ride about 4K on this trip. Leaving with new oil in the bike.

[fxr4mikey]

don't laugh, I need edumaktion in this area ......

can I run Amsoil in all three holes ?

Thanks

[SafetyMan]

Yes.

20/50 in the engine, I run it in the primary as well, although I was thinking of maybe going to Amsoil Super Shift in the primary though... Opinions??????

I'm going to Amsoil Severe Gear 75/140 in the Trans.

I run Amsoil oil filters, too.

[Geezer-Glide]

Super shift is the bomb in the primary, especially if you have your motor hot-rodded. No clutch slippage. Just make sure you readjust your clutch to EXACT factory specs after adding the Super Shift.

If you have the stock 5 speed tranny, 75/90 is fine and will make a BIG difference. Gotta give it a few miles to replace the film of your previous oil on the gear set.

BTW, both Super Shift and Severe Gear oils are at LEAST 10,000 mile service intervals.

[Shooter]

been using amsoil for 35,000 miles with no problems. I do change my oil every 3,000 miles though.