Shovel tear down

[dynageno]

Well I guess I been putting it off long enough. I'm gonna tear the inner and outer primary off the wife's bike and go after that main shaft seal leak again. That dam thing is giving me grief. After that i can chase the ignition intermittent problem. My work is never done. The thumb/hand feels good enough to turn a wrench, so off I go and where it ends, I do not know...

[8-Ball]

Glad the thumb is feeling better...

Take some pics of your progress, Geno and put them up.

Good luck!!!

[Keeper]

Well I guess I been putting it off long enough. I'm gonna tear the inner and outer primary off the wife's bike and go after that main shaft seal leak again. That dam thing is giving me grief. After that i can chase the ignition intermittent problem. My work is never done. The thumb/hand feels good enough to turn a wrench, so off I go and where it ends, I do not know...


If this keeps happening Geno you may need to replace 4th gear. Where it goes into the bearing, the fluid goes thru 4th and out the main shaft + bearing. I dont recommend you use a nut seal either. If you need help let me know.

[harleyjsb]

Good luck Geno..................

[route66paul]

Glad the thumb is feeling better...

Take some pics of your progress, Geno and put them up.

Good luck!!!

Pix of the bike, not your thumb!

[dynageno]

Here are some pix. I found a few problems inside the primary. In the first pix you can see that the bottom bolt back out bending the metal tab that ties the Upper and lower bolts together. The head of the bottom bolt was sheared off. I found it in the outer primary. The washer was in the inner primary on the bottom stuck in some oil.

In the second pix, you don't see any trans fluid leaking on the front side. It is leaking out the back side due to that sprocket being loose. You can actually jiggle it back and forth. Also you can see a stud on the right, when I tryed to remove the nut on the lower stud, the whole thing came out with the nut still on. On the tapered shaft, the key was sheared in half, and I dug out the bottom part with a small screwdriver.

The last pix is just a look at the whole side with the inner primary removed. More pix to follow as work progresses...

[Keeper]

Here are some pix. I found a few problems inside the primary. In the first pix you can see that the bottom bolt back out bending the metal tab that ties the Upper and lower bolts together. The head of the bottom bolt was sheared off. I found it in the outer primary. The washer was in the inner primary on the bottom stuck in some oil.

In the second pix, you don't see any trans fluid leaking on the front side. It is leaking out the back side due to that sprocket being loose. You can actually jiggle it back and forth. Also you can see a stud on the right, when I tryed to remove the nut on the lower stud, the whole thing came out with the nut still on. On the tapered shaft, the key was sheared in half, and I dug out the bottom part with a small screwdriver.

The last pix is just a look at the whole side with the inner primary removed. More pix to follow as work progresses...

Boy , was I way off.......nevermind:outtahere:

[dynageno]

Heres a few more pix of the problems in the primary;
1. The sheared Key.
2.The sheared bolt head.
3.You can rock the sprocket back and forth-not good!
4.When I tried to remove this nut, the whole stud came out. I used red loctite to hold it while I removed the nut.

[dynageno]

1. The broken inner primary. Needs to be welded. There a mounting bolt piece that goes there.
2. Back of inner primary gauged out from when final drive chain broke months earlier.
3. Starter housing gauged from either chain slap or broken chain ripping past that point.

[dynageno]

I missed the UPS guy on friday with the parts for the shovelhead-DRAT!

[route66paul]

Heres a few more pix of the problems in the primary;
1. The sheared Key.
2.The sheared bolt head.
3.You can rock the sprocket back and forth-not good!
4.When I tried to remove this nut, the whole stud came out. I used red loctite to hold it while I removed the nut.

Geno, I would try to replace the studs. It is obvious that the nut was galled to the stud, unless it broke easily, I would get new ones(and nuts, too)

That starter housing looks nasty. When you are old skool, you realize that welding the mounting tabs adds character to the scoot.

[dynageno]

Thanx paul, I got new bolts and nylock nuts, as wellas a new sprocket and stock nut with locking tab. The inner primary has been welded up and looks real good. The guy did an excellent job at welding and surfacing it. Not sure about re-powder coating it, may just paint the affected area. Still waiting on other parts...

[dynageno]

just a few pix of assembly. I did away with the super nut and went back to a stock nut with locking tab washer. I used two of the tabs to lock the nut. The repaired/welded inner primary turned out real nice. while I was in there I replaced the spring,rubber boot and roll pins on the starter solenoid assembly.

[Baalz]

Geno just let me know when you get to the clutch cable reinstall.

[GrayRider]

So,...are we ready to trade now?

[dynageno]

Baalz; why is that?

Grayrider; not quite yet, still have more to do! Ignition, throttle cable, and new clutch cable.

[LittleBear]

Hey Geno, you reinstalled that inner primary yet?
You may want to loosen the engine and transmission mounting bolts to get everything aligned correctly. Broken tabs are usually caused by a misalignment between the engine and transmission putting stress on the inner primary case.

[dynageno]

I thought it was the oversized O-ring I used that caused the problem.
I gonna make sure it's all flush before I put it together. Thanx LB...

[8-Ball]

Great thread, Geno... enjoying the pics and discussion.

Will you be using a reverse torx socket at any time during the rebuild.

[LittleBear]

Great thread, Geno... enjoying the pics and discussion.

Will you be using a reverse torx socket at any time during the rebuild.

:roflback: What the hell are you thinking, Torx was not even invented when that bike was made.

Geno, use the two bolts inside the primary to seat the the inner primary to the engine, pop it down over the o-ring. The two outside bolts through the dog ears are only to help seal oil. Do not use them to seat the inner primary on the engine or you will snap them off again. If the dog ear tabs are not flush with the motor before you start to tighten them, you will snap them off.

[GrayRider]

I agree with Paul..I've seen some of them snap off.

[dynageno]

littlebear- thanx for your help, you are a man of knowledge.

8-ball- there is such a thing as an External Torx, I saw it in my Craftsman club flyer!

[8-Ball]

I don't need no stinking facts...

[dynageno]

:roflback: :roflback: :blink: :roflback: :roflback:

[Kfengler]

So I take it you still have a Busted Shovel...

http://www.doofclenas.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1817&stc=1&d=1177607997

[dynageno]

Started the assembly of the inner primary today!

[8-Ball]

Looks great, Geno!!!

[duhast]

Couple o' questions....

1. Any particular reason you didn't throw a Hayden M6 in there?

2. Why is the primary designed with the offset between the output shaft and the center of the derby? That just looks so wrong to me....

[8-Ball]

Couple o' questions....

1. Any particular reason you didn't throw a Hayden M6 in there?

2. Why is the primary designed with the offset between the output shaft and the center of the derby? That just looks so wrong to me....

Thats the way my bike is too... thought they were all that way.

[LittleBear]

Couple o' questions....

1. Any particular reason you didn't throw a Hayden M6 in there?

2. Why is the primary designed with the offset between the output shaft and the center of the derby? That just looks so wrong to me....

1. I would not wish a Hayden M6 on my worst enemy. And I am sure a shovel would not like it being designed for an EVO and all.

2. Way they are designed. A lot of stuff above the ring gear in a shovel to make that starter engage.

[dynageno]

Duhast, the stock type chain tensioner works just fine. Beside we ain't made of money! :Poke:
8-balls right, thats the way they are on those bikes.:coffee:

[dynageno]

That bad eh?

[LittleBear]

Well to me the M6 is just a gimmick. Two up and loaded, under hard motor deceleration going down a steep grade, there is no way that thing can hold your chain tight, it is just a spring. I had one in my EVO and I got chain slap on the inside of my cases. Other people have had better luck with them than me, I do abuse my equipment, but I think they are a POS. The original design is easy to use, easy to check and never allows chain slap on my cases. YMMV

[dynageno]

Well folks, I started up the shovel today. It cranked right over the first time! Then I shut it off. When i went to start it a little later, It was having a hard time turning over. started wearing the Battery down. I recharged checked a few things and tried again. It started but I heard the sound of the gear in the primary hanging up or something. Will check it out again tomorrow with a fresh head! I did ride it around the block, need to dial in the clutch and replace the trottle cable, but, so far, so good, no leaks......................................Yet!

[dynageno]

Ok, so I went out this morning and pulled the derby cover. I adjusted the 5 nuts back a little as per Grayriders instruction on the clutch. I also backed off the center nut and re-adjusted there too. I then let the bike down and pulled the enricher, key on and hit the button. It fired up! I still here the drive gear maybe sticking a tad, but I fired it up a few times and it starts. I rode it around the block and everything feels good. Gonna go ride it some more and see what happens. Thank you Gray!!!

[8-Ball]

Isn't it great to know old people...

I've been having a problem with my ark...

[jimmymac]

Isn't it great to know old people...

I've been having a problem with my ark...

Gray will be along shortly...

[dynageno]

It's almost done, got a few things to change, needs a new throttle and clutch cable. I also need a snap ring for the shifter lever. gonna run down to RC's and see what I can find. Still may need to pull the primary cover to see if I can see anything sticking or hanging up with the starter drive. Just makes a noise when starting, but stops right away when bike is running. My thanx goes out to all everyone who helped and to Springer for his expertise on the main shaft seal. Ride safe everyone...