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  #1  
Old 10-03-2007, 08:08 AM
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Unusable Air Cleaner ?????

I talked to all three local Harley Dealers this morning about an SE aircleaner for my '08. They were unanimous - can't do it. What they all say is that the only download that H-D has, is for SE slip ons. You have a choice. Either pipes or air cleaner, with download, but not both. They say either a SERT or Power Commander, is the only choice at this time. I am planning to wait on a DTT for the '08 IF it ever comes out.
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  #2  
Old 10-05-2007, 08:14 AM
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Are these the same guys that were telling people the "SERT" was not going to be usable with the '08? They sound similar to the "techs" by me.....
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  #3  
Old 01-29-2008, 04:50 PM
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as usual, they are in the dark. I'm thinkin' that if you go with the SE slip ons, along with the SE a/c, the canned download will work just fine. I have this set up on my '07 and it works perfect. No "dialing in", along with no dyno time, and the performance and sound are really good.
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:58 PM
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I would agree with xcelr8. We just put Rush slip-ons on the 08 Fat bob and no problems. Going to do the A/C next with the canned download!
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Old 01-29-2008, 05:05 PM
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Jim, I'd stay away from the DTT or the TMax, you live close enough to Doc that I'd get a SERT and have him tune it. I'm disappointed in the DTT, it's a constant pain trying to dial it in, get the advance right, then gotta mess with the 10 different variables in the starting tables, then the weather changes and it acts up again. If I can find someone who can tune the SERT out in CA I'm going to unload this DTT. I've tuned dirt bikes for 30+ years and NEVER had as much trouble getting tuning right on something.








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Old 01-29-2008, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jasilva View Post
Jim, I'd stay away from the DTT or the TMax, you live close enough to Doc that I'd get a SERT and have him tune it. I'm disappointed in the DTT, it's a constant pain trying to dial it in, get the advance right, then gotta mess with the 10 different variables in the starting tables, then the weather changes and it acts up again. If I can find someone who can tune the SERT out in CA I'm going to unload this DTT. I've tuned dirt bikes for 30+ years and NEVER had as much trouble getting tuning right on something.

Joe
I hear this same story all the time from guys who are trying to squeeze the last tiny bit of power out of their motors. Never could understand why anyone needs to do that on a street bike. The canned download works perfect for Stage 1 bikes, and it is a whole lot cheaper than the SERT (Screaming Eagle RACE Tuner), and there is no dyno time needed. Plus there are zero issues.
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Old 01-29-2008, 05:21 PM
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I wasn't trying to sell Jim on a SERT I was trying to steer him away from the DTT type auto tune systems. I think your correct for the typical stage 1 bike the canned download is all they need. My bike is a looooonnnng way from being able to use a canned download. I wasn't trying to squeeze the last bit out. But it was sold to me as a really easy to use tuner that would allow me to make changes to my engine and not have to pony up 2 or 3 bills for a dyno tune everytime. If you have hours to spend riding and then looking at log files to sort out what is going on you can get a decent tune out of it but I don't think it can touch the SERT for ridability/reliability if the SERT is in capable hands. I think who ever it was over at VTF that said using anything but a SERT is a mindfck for the PCM was right.







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Old 01-29-2008, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jasilva View Post
I wasn't trying to sell Jim on a SERT I was trying to steer him away from the DTT type auto tune systems. I think your correct for the typical stage 1 bike the canned download is all they need. My bike is a looooonnnng way from being able to use a canned download. I wasn't trying to squeeze the last bit out. But it was sold to me as a really easy to use tuner that would allow me to make changes to my engine and not have to pony up 2 or 3 bills for a dyno tune everytime. If you have hours to spend riding and then looking at log files to sort out what is going on you can get a decent tune out of it but I don't think it can touch the SERT for ridability/reliability if the SERT is in capable hands. I think who ever it was over at VTF that said using anything but a SERT is a mindfck for the PCM was right.

Joe
Totally agree. The canned dowload is for us guys who have no intention of going beyond pipes and an air cleaner. The SERT is fantastic (or so I've heard) for those guys who like to play with their motors.
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  #9  
Old 01-29-2008, 05:38 PM
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I hear this same story all the time from guys who are trying to squeeze the last tiny bit of power out of their motors. Never could understand why anyone needs to do that on a street bike. The canned download works perfect for Stage 1 bikes, and it is a whole lot cheaper than the SERT (Screaming Eagle RACE Tuner), and there is no dyno time needed. Plus there are zero issues.
A lot must have changed from when I bought my bike in '05. I was told by my HD dealer that the SE air cleaner and TD Rinehardts would be a good marriage with the canned download. The thing idled hard, stalled, ran terrible. They then recommended the SERT, put it on with another canned map and it then backfired cannonballs and stalled, but it ran better. I asked them to dial it in and they then told me that they didn't have a way to dyno it and that I was on my own.

I don't trust the dealers to know what they are doing and trust them even less with their recommendations. I followed their recommendations until my bike finally wouldn't run.

That being said, if I lived near Doc, I would get the SERT and have him tune it. Its not about getting the last HP out of it, its merely about getting a proper tune... at least it is for me.
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Old 01-29-2008, 05:43 PM
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Canned maps are OFTEN off the mark....the further you get down the road in mods the margin increases. Jim, as for the 08's, I got nothin, other than see the Doc for your tuning needs. I have to decide between going north, south or west 800 miles for a good tuner of SERT's
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  #11  
Old 01-29-2008, 08:08 PM
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I am certainly no expert. I am a dinosaur when it comes to the new electronics controlling the fuel delivery on my new Harley. In order to make a reasonable decision on the direction I wanted to take, I asked everyone here, and read absolutely every piece of information I could get off of the internet and out of magazines. Here is what I think I learned. With a stock 2008 Touring bike, there are no easy solutions for the seemingly simple addition of an aftermarket exhaust and free flow air cleaner. Harley-Davidson says the download is for adding mufflers only! A free flow air cleaner/muffler combination will end up extremely lean with only a download. I'm not sure I believe this. When I removed the mufflers from my bike, I was shocked at how restrictive they were. The left side muffler looked like it was built to stop any flow from that side of the bike. The amount of restriction concerned me, because, I intended to put SPO's on with <gasp> no download. I figured it was all ready leaning out to 14.7 to 1 on idle and cruise anyway, and nothing short of removing the O2 sensors would change that any way. I'd take a chance. It ran great. No pinging, and smooth as could be. The Dealer techs were shocked. Said I couldn't get away with that. Wrong. When I put on the SE air cleaner, I went with the SERT. Why you ask? Because the ECM that came on the bike is a highly sophisticated, well thought out, piece of equipment. We may not like the parameters loaded into it by the factory, but the system itself is the most sophisticated out there. Why would I need it? I have what amounts to a simple stage one? This is true, but I plan to keep this bike until I die. Might add another, but this one stays. At some point, this engine will grenade. Harley built it that way. On purpose. The crank and bearings become marginal at 100HP. That means that until I commit to spending some really large bucks, I need to keep the tune conservative. I would love to change the cams, get gear drives for them, and work on the heads. I would also love to bore the cylinders, and go to 103". That will happen in the distant future, when this engine has problems. At that point the rebuild will include a better crank, Timkin bearings, and the other stuff mentioned. Hopefully I will be able to take a trip to someone like Otto, or make it up to Maine for lobster and a trip to Big Boyz. At that point the O2 sensors come out and the tune goes up a little notch as a stopgap. In the meantime, it is really running great. It pulls extremely well, runs smooth, and still has reasonable mileage. I'm absolutely sure there are people out there with other solutions that work for them. The bottom line is no matter what you go with, you better have a good tuner who knows how to deal with the system you went with. I am lucky. I have lots of good people around me, and they all do SERT.
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Old 01-29-2008, 10:59 PM
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Doc and Springer recommend the SERT. Good enough for me.

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Old 01-30-2008, 12:22 AM
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what i did...

when i put the Big Sucker on, I got the SERT from Jenni @ Benjy's...20% off...
friend of mine brought his laptop over and installed the 95" map...
runs great and i have the ability to change when i do the 95"/cams...
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  #14  
Old 07-17-2008, 08:24 PM
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I've got the SE slipons and the SE air cleaner (I installed an aftermarket filter) as part of the stage 2 build. They uploaded a stage 2 map with the build and the bike runs like a dream. I was told by the dealership that if I replaced these pipes with a Propipe I would not need any tuning done, that this map was enough. I'm not comfortable with this idea, but my point is that the AC and slipons work just fine with the HD upload.
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Old 07-17-2008, 08:26 PM
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Not sure if there is a separate stage 1 and stage 2 map. Does anyone else know?
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