Would be a rant about "electrician" ability but whatever...

[Bluetoys]

Today I begin to install my new transfer switch for the generator and first thing I have to do is rewire the birds nest in the existing circuit box. It was disgustingly messy when they installed it, presumably when the house was new. The circuit box itself was attached with three 1"x4" wood boards nailed to the studs with roofing nails and no insulation behind them.
I insulated and added vapor barrier before I slid the 1/2" plywood behind it to mount the box properly.
It just wasn't tidy, white and ground wires were way too long and wrapped in with the black wires and all of it was half ass.
Found a black wire that the insulation was stripped off about an inch when the sheath was cut off. I taped it up.
The big deal is that when I moved the ground and white wires from one grounding block to the grounding block on the other side because the black wire was on the opposite bank of breakers. Kind of an OCD thing maybe.
It just looked bad for wires to be all willy nilly.
Problem was, when I did that, all of a sudden the circuits began to act weird.
Traced it to be a ground problem.
The left side grounding block was grounded through the wiring circuit that I moved, and was no longer grounded afterwards. All the circuits on that side was backfeeding through wherever the one wire went to.
The reason I found for the problem was sheer stupidity on the installer's part.
It has been this way since it was new.



ImageUploadedByTapatalk1356848615.804400.jpg

The bonding lug was not attached!
Only the block that the service supply wire was attached to was actually right, the other one (left side) wasn't. I dismantled all the wires to get to the lug and made it right.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1356848813.071341.jpg

And the result, I still needed to finish the transfer switch wires when I took this pic

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1356848915.455236.jpg

[Big Cheese]

How much bite did you get on the lug under the screw? Looks short....

[YankeeBob]

Electricity is like p*ssy. Unless you know what you are doing, don't f*ck with it.

Good catch. I'm glad all turned out well without toasting anything.

[TalonChief]

I'm not an electrician, but I'd venture a guess the box in that first pic never saw an inspector. And it was original to the construction?

I opened the panel here for something shortly after we moved in. I found a GFI breaker w/ a broken retainer clip lying in the bottom, w/ the neutral still wired into a circuit...nothing on the load side. The neutral from the new breaker was ganged w/ the neutral on the GFI.

I guess whoever it was didn't want to drop >$20 on the right part, so they just put a regular 20A in it's place and assumed by leaving the GFI w/ no load across it in there everything'd still work as advertised.


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[fxr4mikey]

I think many electricians are lazy/sloppy by trade/nature .... at least that's the impression I get when I look inside most distribution panels.

My OCD really comes out every time I open one .... I can't stand to see everything loaded up on one side and ground/neutral wires running all over the place, 3 times longer than necessary, or two loads on one breaker, WTF ..... why can't they run them in, say they start at the top, then just keep dressing them down the side..... and run both sides, wires all running a lil past each breaker, bend back up 90 degree to the breaker and ground/neutral lug, this leaves room for changes later, balanced out ...

[TalonChief]

Originally Posted by fxr4mikey

I think many electricians are lazy/sloppy by trade/nature .... at least that's the impression I get when I look inside most distribution panels.

I don't get in too many, but I see more often than not crisp 90* bends and all wires cut to nominal length.

I remember houses from the '20-'40s as a kid that looked like Matt's, but haven't seen one recently. His reminds me of the self-help wiring I found in the add-on garage in my house in Valdosta. What's a junction box and splices?

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[fxr4mikey]

well, ok, you give me pause to reflect..... recently I did some work for someone, and I admit, the box didn't look bad at all..... maybe I was just remembering all the rats nests that I've found in the long ago past

[noodles]

I didn't read much but I looked at the pictures twice~

[Xkvator]

here's what happens on new residential construction...the GC wants to make a lot of money, and spend as little as possible on the subs...
as long as stuff passes inspection, he doesnt care...
He designated a certain amount for the basic electrical, and a lot of experienced electricians wont work for minimum wages, so the job often goes to the less experienced...

[fxr4mikey]

sounds right .... makes perfect sense ... now that you've explained it ..

[OKC Fatboy]

Originally Posted by Xkvator

here's what happens on new residential construction...the GC wants to make a lot of money, and spend as little as possible on the subs...
as long as stuff passes inspection, he doesnt care...
He designated a certain amount for the basic electrical, and a lot of experienced electricians wont work for minimum wages, so the job often goes to the less experienced...

This is correct. I have a house built for us in 2005. Wiring looked just as bad. Had MY electrician come out and clean things up.


Bob

[noodles]

Originally Posted by OKC Fatboy

This is correct. I have a house built for us in 2005. Wiring looked just as bad. Had MY electrician come out and clean things up.


Bob

I think I know him~

[Bluetoys]

Originally Posted by Big Cheese

How much bite did you get on the lug under the screw? Looks short....

It didn't seem short, the screw had plenty of bite. There was only one way of doing it that I could see. Well, two - this way or not at all.

[DAK47]

One thing to keep in mind, is that the bonding screw/strap needs to be established on the incoming service only! Any sub distribution down stream needs the bonding screw/strap lifted....
How you guys treat the neutral and ground terminal bars is a little funky for me.

Dirk

[Scabbydoo]

Originally Posted by Xkvator

....He designated a certain amount for the basic electrical, and a lot of experienced electricians wont work for minimum wages, so the job often goes to the less experienced...

Many if not most of the trades in new construction are subs. They generally are doing jobs on a flat rate contract with the amount based on the various models. The quicker they can get the job done, the quicker they can move on to the next house, the more money they can make. If they can minimize material usage, that's a few more bucks they can pick up.