About building a shop...

[MrSurly]

Red Iron; Stick-built; Pole Frame construction methods to consider.

I have *some* experience with Red Iron building construction.

I have a some real experience at stick-building.

I have no familiarity with whats being called "Modern Post Frame" construction. My recent study indicates that its a newly standardized implementation of old-style pole-barn methods improved with new materials and using modern panel trusses.

The finished product looks the same with each method, from the outside. On the inside, they look slightly different, dependent on the level of 'finishing out' that is done.



Red iron buildings (the typical large steel building method) are the most expensive.

Stick building is less than red iron (maybe 30%?)

Post frame can be much less than the stick built. If you are fully finishing the interior, some of this advantage is lost.

All of this is hearsay. I'm not sure who to believe, so somebody here needs to set me straight.

Has anyone done the post-frame method?

It looks like a great method, it's cheaper to build and the end product is equal.

That doesn't happen in real life, so what am I missing?



For comparison, some quotes for a basic 24x30 with a 4" slab, 10' walls, a roll up door and a walk thru door, turn-key:

red Iron (Mueller) 13,800

stick frame, 2x6 stud walls 12,200

Post frame 8,800


Discuss

[Dinero]

Ultimately you have to decide what you are going to do to the inside because those costs change depending on the construction. And some of that depends on whether you do it yourself or pay to have it done.

[YankeeBob]

It's a shop. No reason to break the bank.
Consider 2x4 construction also.

[DAK47]

Originally Posted by YankeeBob

It's a shop. No reason to break the bank.
Consider 2x4 construction also.

^^^^ Right there, 2 x 4 is plenty fine and stick frame rules unless you nee a couple mono beams running a few 2.5 ton hoists
Stick frame lets you get all kinds of electrical / plumbing and or air in insulated walls without having to strap everyhing.... Best of Luck, exciting times!!!!

Dirk

[MrSurly]

I quoted that wrong, the stick price of 12k was 2x4.

Money is always a big factor but I'm also intrigued by the post and truss design. The concrete is poured AFTER the building is up and the slab is not structural.
The shell would be insulated between the skin and the frame with the same stuff used on the Red Iron builds.
Probably R-something, anyway. If I later decided to skin the inside, there would be ample room for R19. I really doubt that I would fully finish all the walls inside but might do an office or other small portion.
I'm just wary of the unknown downside of the method. I haven't heard anyone's complaints yet but I'm too cynical to believe that there aren't any.
Nothing is ever ALL upside.
If you're in a large metal building and notice wooden columns and roof trusses, you're in a post-frame.
Anyone have a post frame building?

[vafatboy]

These guys sell pole barns. But worth a read

http://www.polebarn.com/beforeyoubuild/

[SafetyMan]

Originally Posted by MrSurly

Anyone have a post frame building?

I had a 28x40 in Michigan.

WISH it was stick built for the following reasons:

you can't buy ANYTHING to put on or against the walls that hangs 8' on centers.

Insulation is a muthafukka, up there, couldn't heat it. Here, can't cool it.
CAN be done, but it's high dollar.

It was ALWAYS colder in the building than outside, in the winter, and hotter inside than out in the summer.

I wanted to skin the inside, not finish, per se, but skin it out for ease of use, cabinets, benches, shelves etc.

Running electric was a pain in the ass.

Spend a little extra now, save a LOT down the road.

My 2 cents, and YMMV.

[Xkvator]

I'm getting ready for work, so I don't have a lot of time...but I can tell ya some things...be back after 3 pm...

Yinzer wrong about insulating a pole type building...wide batt insulation is available(not the kind they use in steel buildings)for walls & blown in fiberglass for the ceiling...and Morton Buildings are the most energy efficient...

I have a 42' x 75' built by Morton...

a 24' x 30' stick built(2 x 6's)

and a 30' x 40' block w/brick veneer...


off to work...

[Jackwagon]

ONe thing to consider about the poles is that you are putting lumber in the ground. Eventually, those poles will rot at ground level. I have been involved with fixing several of said rotted poles. It's not a huge project, but kind of time consuming. You have to dig down right next to the existing pole and set a new one, then bolt the new to the existing. I'm sure there are other ways, but this method has worked well for the repairs that we have done. Most of the buildings we have fixed have been about 30 to 40 years old, so this isn't something that will be a problem right away. Just something to think about for the future.

[Jackwagon]

I have built 2 pole type buildings on my property, 1 shop and 1 storage building, and am very happy with both.

[Ancient Iron]

I have had a lot of experience with the post style buildings. I have built 2, owned a Morton built, and helped put up 8 or 10 of them of various sizes. As your research shows Ricky, they are the cheapest method to get square footage covered. I always covered the interior of the steel with the foam board with foil insulation and it worked ok for my purposes.

The next better step would be hanging a ceiling in it, then throwing up stud walls. Of course at that point you have to figure the stick built cost trade off. A lot of guys I know have framed up and finished a section inside those buildings as a heated and cooled shop and the rest of the building is storage and fair weather work area.

A good friend took it much further. He had a 48' x 96' with 14' walls put up on some bare acreage he had. We walled the back 48' off and completely finished it out into a 2 story, 6 bedroom, 3 bath house. Added windows and separate entry doors. Worked pretty well. They raised 5 boys in it, and he had a nice shop on the other side of the wall. He told me he had about half of what a stick built house would have cost him in it.

[Infidel!]

Ricky, we have a 30x30 shop like you describe built by Archery buildings. it's 13 years old now. You can come look at it if you like. (West of Palestine) It's sturdy, rock solid actually. The only issue is it's not built on 16 inch centers. After our break in we wanted to replace the door with a steel security door. It was done, but some creative engineering was required.

They put up the frame then poured the slab, then attached the walls and roof. Pretty slick.

[Xkvator]

I don't know anything about how garages are built in Texas...since the weather/soil is different...how deep footings hafta be, etc...
seems that you probly can build on a slab without footers...

so that would be my 1st consideration...what type of foundation I need...

2nd would be what type of siding/veneer...
pole buildings generally use metal siding...stick built would be easier to use aluminum/vinyl siding...

[vafatboy]

Originally Posted by Xkvator

I don't know anything about how garages are built in Texas...since the weather/soil is different...how deep footings hafta be, etc...
seems that you probly can build on a slab without footers...

so that would be my 1st consideration...what type of foundation I need...

2nd would be what type of siding/veneer...
pole buildings generally use metal siding...stick built would be easier to use aluminum/vinyl siding...

I will just add that it would have to be a thickened slab where the supports are. Thickened as needed to carry the weight of the building based on bearing weight of the soil, thus the term "spread footing". In a place that gets and freeze/thaw I would think you would want a turn down slab to below frost as well with insulation under the slab to prevent heave at the perimeter.

[Jackwagon]

If you're looking at 24'x30', and you go with a pole building, make it 24'x32' instead. poles usually go on 8' centers.