Screamin Eagle Roller Chain Upgrade.

[PeaceKeeper]

Anybody done this Roller Chain upgrade on a pre 06 TC88 motors? They say the tensioners last a lot longer but they look pretty flimsy and thin to me. I'm thinking Andrews Gear drive for longevity and trouble free riding.

Screamin' Eagle® Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner Plate Upgrade Kit

This kit updates the cam chain tensioner of your early-model Twin Cam 88® engine to the latest design, as featured on the Twin Cam 96 engine. The billet cam support plate has been designed to allow the installation of the late-model Twin Cam 96 hydraulic cam chain tensionser to early Twin Cam 88®-equipped models. These hydraulic cam chain tensioners will significantly outlast® the spring loaded tensioners, and are an ideal addition to an engine modified for improved performance. In addition, '02-'06 models feature the late-model single row front cam chain and sprockets ('99 - '01 models use the existing front silent chain). utilize a Twin Cam 96 single row front roller chain and sprocket (included in kit). '99-'01 models use Original Equipment front silent chain and sprocket to retain the cam position sensor function. The kit includes the improved late-model Twin Cam 96 oil pump that increases flow by 8% and scavenging by 22% to enhance other performance upgrades.

25284-08


Fits '99-'05 Dyna® models, '99-06 Touring models, and '00-'06 Softail® models. Installation requires separate purchase of Spacer Kit P/N 25285-08.

[orbit]

I've been mullin' this over for a long time.

I'm leaning toward gear drive. Like some one told me recently, put in the gear drive, then you don't have to worry about the tensioners again.

[Geezer-Glide]

This setup is supposed to be the bee's knees. Who knows, time will tell. I like my gears.

[Dsanchez]

I believe there are also other conversion kits out there that use the cam plate that comes stock on the '06 and up models...not the screamin chicken one.

A buddy of mine converted his '01 Wide Glide and '00 Dresser using the conversion kits. I believe you are not able to run screamin' eagle cams in them but I could be wrong on that. I do know that Andrews 26, for example, comes in 26h for '06 later models but if you have the conversion kit you use the 26n.

In my '07 dresser I have the 26h and will consider the 26n for my dyna when I can afford it.

[jasilva]

I converted mine when I did the 95". I went to Andrews website and got the parts list for the conversion and ordered all the parts from Zanotti HD online. Including a set of 37N cams(the conversion cam for this kit equivalent to 37G) it cost me about $500. The parts in the Andrews list are all from the 06 Dyna parts book. I asked a couple of reputable builders if they felt I should use the SE camplate which has bushings for the cams instead of the bushingless oil bearing the stocker uses. They both felt that it was unnecessary unless I was going with a .600+ lift cam that would really stress the valve train. So far they seem to be right, I've put 8k miles on since converting it and I just changed the oil 2 days ago and cut the filter open AND strained the oil through a t-shirt to check for any debris. The filter and oil were spotless after 3k miles, clean enough that I'll probably increase my mileage between oil changes. Also the improved scavenging of the new pump seems to help I didn't have to add any oil between changes and the AC has no oil build up from the breathers. As far as the how strong the tensioner pads are, on close inspection they are thicker and better reinforced than the old style.

[RoadWolf]

Installed on my '03 RG in early March of this year at a hair over 45k.
Silver will hit 63k this coming weekend and has had no complaints.
Didn't do it for performance though -- I was just trying to minimizing future tensioner replacement.

[Bone Stockman]

Originally Posted by jasilva

I converted mine when I did the 95". I went to Andrews website and got the parts list for the conversion and ordered all the parts from Zanotti HD online. Including a set of 37N cams(the conversion cam for this kit equivalent to 37G) it cost me about $500. The parts in the Andrews list are all from the 06 Dyna parts book. I asked a couple of reputable builders if they felt I should use the SE camplate which has bushings for the cams instead of the bushingless oil bearing the stocker uses. They both felt that it was unnecessary unless I was going with a .600+ lift cam that would really stress the valve train. So far they seem to be right, I've put 8k miles on since converting it and I just changed the oil 2 days ago and cut the filter open AND strained the oil through a t-shirt to check for any debris. The filter and oil were spotless after 3k miles, clean enough that I'll probably increase my mileage between oil changes. Also the improved scavenging of the new pump seems to help I didn't have to add any oil between changes and the AC has no oil build up from the breathers. As far as the how strong the tensioner pads are, on close inspection they are thicker and better reinforced than the old style.

If you're not going to do gears, this is the way to go, not the S/E hybrid kit. The S/E kit keeps the old-style tensioners on the inner side. Go Andrews (which is the full hydraulic like the '06+ bikes come with) if you can't do gears.

[jasilva]

Originally Posted by '05Train

If you're not going to do gears, this is the way to go, not the S/E hybrid kit. The S/E kit keeps the old-style tensioners on the inner side. Go Andrews (which is the full hydraulic like the '06+ bikes come with) if you can't do gears.

I did gears on my Softail and everything was really close to perfect on tolerances, couple of good wrenches even commented on how quiet it was but the upsides to the hydraulic tensioner set up outweigh the supposed slight increase in hp with the gears. Unless I'm building an all out race motor I'll go with the hydraulic set up every time. Just for a reference, my ST showed 99hp/101tq. and my SG 101hp/106tq. Same dyno, same tuner, both tuned with a PCIII, identical builds and both bikes are 06 models. So if you allow for the couple of hp loss due to the balancers in the ST they are damn near equal.

[PeaceKeeper]

I am still concerened with the tensioner pads, not that there is an issue with my stock set up yet, but this move is preventative. I dont want to be out on a xcountry tour in nowhere land and end up with an issue. Its either this or gears.

[jasilva]

Like I said above, 8k miles and not a speck of tensioner pad in the oil, with the original set up I saw bits in the filter every oil change. I think you would probably be okay with the original set up though. Your a high mileage rider, it seems to be the short hop riders who have problems. The basic mechanism of why the spring tensioners are bad and the hydraulic good is this, think about the engine getting good and hot from say a 20 mile ride and then shutting the bike down, the spring tensioners continue to press on the hot chains but now do not have a continuous flow of oil to cool and lubricate, the pad material heats up and is forced into the gaps between chain links and the pores of the metal, you restart the bike and a small amount of pad material is ripped off the pads then rubbed off the chain as that area passes under the tensioner. Now same bike with hydraulic tensioners is shut down, the tensioners lose hydraulic pressure and the pads are no longer being forced into the chain plus the design of the roller chain means a larger uninterupted surface for the pad to press against so no small nooks/crannies for the pad to press into, so on restart the pad does not get material torn away. Now consider a bike that is ridden hundreds of miles in a day, most are ridden 100+ miles before a stop for fuel and then you start up again before the pads have had time to get heat transferred to them, so not nearly as many opportunities for the pads to adhere to the chain. This is why the high mileage riders seem to go 50000-80000 miles with no tensioner pad failures.

[PeaceKeeper]

Originally Posted by jasilva

Like I said above, 8k miles and not a speck of tensioner pad in the oil, with the original set up I saw bits in the filter every oil change. I think you would probably be okay with the original set up though. Your a high mileage rider, it seems to be the short hop riders who have problems. The basic mechanism of why the spring tensioners are bad and the hydraulic good is this, think about the engine getting good and hot from say a 20 mile ride and then shutting the bike down, the spring tensioners continue to press on the hot chains but now do not have a continuous flow of oil to cool and lubricate, the pad material heats up and is forced into the gaps between chain links and the pores of the metal, you restart the bike and a small amount of pad material is ripped off the pads then rubbed off the chain as that area passes under the tensioner. Now same bike with hydraulic tensioners is shut down, the tensioners lose hydraulic pressure and the pads are no longer being forced into the chain plus the design of the roller chain means a larger uninterupted surface for the pad to press against so no small nooks/crannies for the pad to press into, so on restart the pad does not get material torn away. Now consider a bike that is ridden hundreds of miles in a day, most are ridden 100+ miles before a stop for fuel and then you start up again before the pads have had time to get heat transferred to them, so not nearly as many opportunities for the pads to adhere to the chain. This is why the high mileage riders seem to go 50000-80000 miles with no tensioner pad failures.

Great info! Thanks. I always wondered why mine looked like new at 30k and just a little wear at 50. This explains why some guys grenate at 10 K and some go to 100k. If thats the case maybe I will go with the hyd upgrade, thanks

[orbit]

Here's a link to the Andrews conversion cam install page, including a parts (and part numbers) list to do the conversion.

<clicky>

Andrews also sells a conversion kit, it's part number is 288902.

[Kfengler]

Why not go with Gear Drive?


When I had my 95" done I went that direction, seemed like a no brainer!

Maybe the chain & tensioner have improved a lot since 05!

[Bone Stockman]

Yeah, they have. If I were to ever consider switching cams in the LTD, I'd stick with the hydraulic setup rather than messing with gears.....Unless I was doing a monster build.

[PeaceKeeper]

After talking with the parts guys at the shop today the hyd upgrade is a hybrid kit, it uses the old style cams with the outer roller bearings but with the new style pump, cam plate and tensioner. Actually its a pretty good set up to retrofit older bikes. Think I am going with the hyd kit and the andrews 26 or the 204 cam, leaning towards the 26 for its smoothe idle.