We are going to see Gran Torino....

[SafetyMan]

Originally Posted by dwarthog

Perhaps there are still some lingering bad feeling toward the Hmong after that one Hmong guy killed 5 or 6 deer hunters a few years back in Wisconsin.

Perhaps.

Being a hunter, and being around the hunting forums, I had opportunity to "chat" with a family member of one of the deceased.

It would seem that is not an isolated incident, albeit extreme. As I understand it, they think they can go trespass anywhere as their right, and hunt anywhere they like.

[Berserker]

There some tensions even before that. Its hard when you get a large influx of one nationality.

Some of the stories after the killing, said how the hmong cultrue doesn't under stand land ownership and tresspassing. Buddy of mine said, don't they understand murder? Good point.

Problem may be, you get some of these immigrants from some pretty lousy places. Where life may not hold the value it does here. If you grew up in war zone, you prblem have less of a problem killing some one. Not that, that is an excuse.

In Peshtigo hunter killed a Hmong. He was some guy with prison record, tried saying self defense, but none of it added up.

[Dirty Dan]

That happened not all that far from me. There are tensions between White and Hmong hunters for sure because of cultural differences. While none of us were there, I have to figure something triggered that incident beyond asking the guy to leave. (The Rice Lake incident.)

I work with a Hmong guy, I've rented to a Hmong family for three years, I know a few Hmong pool players, and have just hung out at the Hmong New Years celebration here for a number of years. In my opinion, Hmong are kind and generous. That is so far out of character for the ones I know. But there is always a whack job that is the outlier.

[dwarthog]

Originally Posted by Dirty Dan

That happened not all that far from me. There are tensions between White and Hmong hunters for sure because of cultural differences. While none of us were there, I have to figure something triggered that incident beyond asking the guy to leave. (The Rice Lake incident.)

I work with a Hmong guy, I've rented to a Hmong family for three years, I know a few Hmong pool players, and have just hung out at the Hmong New Years celebration here for a number of years. In my opinion, Hmong are kind and generous. That is so far out of character for the ones I know. But there is always a whack job that is the outlier.

No doubt there are way more good Hmong than bad, but it seems it is always a bad apple or two that gets most of the press and then causes generally bad feelings towards the group as a whole.

[Berserker]

I am sure it was more then just leave, but I don't care what racial slur or insult I use, you still can't shoot me.

[Dirty Dan]

Originally Posted by Berserker

I am sure it was more then just leave, but I don't care what racial slur or insult I use, you still can't shoot me.

Your absolutely correct.

I've been told that the first shots fired were warnings to leave. I don't care if I am trespassing, you still don't get to shoot at me...

[Berserker]

I never heard that warning shots were fired at the hmong. But its been awhile. They had a teenage girl in the party if I remember right, so doubt they planned on killing him and hiding the body.

***edit no teenage girl. One woman was shot.

[Dirty Dan]

I don't think they shot at him. I think shots may have been fired in the air. But if the guy thought they were shooting at him, it may explain his actions to an extent.

The guy going off because they called him names is one thing, but shooting is another.

Like I said, we weren't there.

http://www.modelminority.com/printout931.html

[Berserker]

The guy said he wandered on to private land on accident. He didn't even have a WI hunting liscense.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,139239,00.html
no mention of warning shots

They were also interested in Vang for another killing,not sure what ever happended with that.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1287569/posts

[Dirty Dan]

If I find one more link, is it a draw?

[Berserker]

According to the statement, Mr. Vang said several hunters surrounded him, swore at him and threatened him after he had climbed down from the platform. He said that after he had walked about 20 yards from the hunters, he turned and saw one of them point a rifle at him.

"Vang immediately dropped to a crouch position, and the subject shot at Vang," the report said, summarizing his account. "The bullet hit the ground 30 to 40 feet behind Vang."

"Vang shot two times at the man with the rifle, and the man dropped to the ground," the report said.


So the guy claims they pointed a gun at him, he then spins and get down on knee, to shoot, and then they shoot at him.

Not sure if they even proved the white hutner shot. There would have been a casing. There was only one gun too. So how do you explain the rest of the dead people?

If I just killed someone, sure I am gonna say they shot at me 1st. Without being there, I am gonna guess the guy who did they killing is more likely to shoot. Most people don't have the nerve or intent to start shooting.

This guy is a whack job, who happens to be Hmong.

[Dirty Dan]

I suppose you're right. White people would never do something like that.

Just ask an Indian.

[Berserker]

thats out of left field. I am just saying, without knowing what happened, I tend to guess the guy who shot 8 people, is more likely to pull the trigger 1st.

Its hard to defend this guy when 1 gun, 6 dead and 2 more wounded. It doesn't add up. If he would have just killed one guy, maybe you could try that defense. Atleast 3 were shot in the back.


So far I have not been able to find out if the hunters even fired. Though the problem is knowing the sequence of events even if one of them did fire. Without knowing, I tend to not beleive a guy who just shot 8 people. That person seems more likely to fire 1st, since he has no qualms about shooting people.

[Dirty Dan]

Yea. I agree...it is hard to defend his actions. He went berserk...

I'm only making the point that there is more to the story than them telling the guy to leave and he starts busting caps in their asses. I think if the situation had been handled a little more delicately, it wouldn't have happened.

[Berserker]

Willers and Hesebeck indicated only one shot was fired at Vang - by Hesebeck, who was already wounded and some of his friends lay mortally wounded on the ground.

So there was one shot fired by the white hunters. Both sides say the other shot 1st. I just tend not to beleive the guy who shot 8 people. He is defnitly more willing to shoot.