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#1
03-27-2007, 09:42 PM
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Rebuilding an '05 RK brake caliper and changing the pads.
This is a repost of a thread I put up down the street. I hope it helps anyone interested in rebuilding their calipers and/or doing a brake job.
8-Ball 10-29-2006 08:05 PM I need to rebuild my rear caliper... help please... Hey... I've gotten into a little trouble here... A little history: My rear rotor was wore down to minimum thickness at 21k miles... seemed early. Put a new rotor on with a new pair of Lindal Z plus pads... put it all back together and tested it. The new rotor got exceedingly hot... front rotors got warm but not intensely hot. The new rotor was not flat so I got a new HD floating rotor. Swung the caliper away, took off the pads and pumped the brake pedal. One piston pumped out easily, while two came out part way and one barely moved. In talking with LittleBear and a discussion in another thread, the thought became dragging pads prematurely wore out the original rotor. So I decided to put a new seal kit in the rear caliper... took the crossover bolts off and separated the two halves. Put an air hose in one of the crossover holes and one piston hit me in the head... Okay... put on the safety goggles and got both pistons out. Sent the daughter to HD, she got lost and they closed before she got there... Okay, so I'll finish the prep... The other side of the caliper is still connected to the banjo bolt. I was hoping to just pop those pistons out by pulling on them and working at them little by little, but no go. I can't seem to find a socket that will take the banjo bolt off. I have female TORX sockets, but none seem to fit. Anyone know what size that is???? The plan is to get a new seal kit, some silicone grease for the seals (I have the HD part number for that) and reuse the existing pistons. Is this a good plan??? I'm confident I can get it back together and bleed the system... had that done yesterday. Right now the banjo bolt is hanging me up. Thanks for any suggestions. pa-glazier 10-29-2006 08:47 PM 8, I believe that you need a 12 point metric socket (can't remember the size)for the banjo bolt. A 6 point wouln't work. LongRide 10-29-2006 08:57 PM Quote:
 ViennaHog 10-29-2006 09:51 PM Once you're at it, get a rebuild kit for the master cylinder and put it in. Dragging can be caused by clogged return valve in the master and a seizing piston. Check for shiny areas on the piston and sand them with a fine grit paper. Chased rear brake dragging for a while and found this. Snowdundr 10-29-2006 09:58 PM I'm fairly sure it's a 10mm, 12 pt socket. 8-Ball 10-29-2006 10:53 PM 3/8" 12 point socket did the trick... Vienna... I may do the rebuild on the master cylinder... read a good thread on that... I think it was yours... LittleBear linked me up to it. Okay, I have the pistons all out and the caliper apart, all cleaned up on the bench. I don't have the HD removal tool and kept getting one to pop out and the other wouldn't... so I took a piece of wood and held it down across both pistons, stuck my finger in one of the fluid holes and shot air into the other... by holding down evenly (like a brake pad) across both pistons, got them both to pop up high enough to pull them the rest of the way out. Question: I tried to torque that master cylinder nut and couldn't find a tool to get onto it... what is the secret on that one? Thanks for the help you guys... RidingJerry 10-30-2006 09:22 AM On the pistons that were sticky. I use 0000 steel wool to clean them and clean the cyl. bores. Be sure to clean everything with brake fluid. You don't want any steel wool left inside. Brakes are like engines, "cleanliness is next to Godliness". 8-Ball 10-30-2006 09:29 AM Quote:
Shaw_2112 10-30-2006 09:30 AM In case you didn't know, don't use brake fluid to lube the pistons when you put them back in. There's a special grease that came with the new pistons I bought when I rebuilt mine, don't know what it is but I'm sure the dealer can tell you. Using brake fluid causes lever travel, I found out the hard way..... 8-Ball 10-30-2006 09:41 AM Quote:
Shaw_2112 10-30-2006 09:46 AM Quote:
8-Ball 10-31-2006 05:14 PM Everything staged and ready to go: Cleaned the calipers with Brake Cleaner, used a tooth brush for the seal grooves, rinsed, then ran alcohol and brushed again... I then took a piece of ScotchBrite with WD40 and ran it over the pistons and bores (lightly) and took off varnish, etc... rinsed with brake cleaner and brushed the grooves again. I then rinsed with alcohol twice... then blew it all out dry. The fluid holes all got flushed as well.  Clean and dry... ready for seals.   Lubed up the seals with HD specific grease and inserted them into their respective gooves... not too little I hope. Ran the lube in the sides of the bores and the bottom (rounded ends) of the pistons.  Then gently pushed them straight into the bores... nice firm slip fit. Put the crossover seals in, lined up the anti-rattle spring, aligned the two halves of the caliper, and torqued up the crossover bolts... So far so good.  Ironrdr 10-31-2006 05:24 PM Those pistons would have popped right out if you had used "The Wrench" By the way, shish-kabobs for dinner???? What's with the skewers??? -darrell keep it up 8, your trials and tribulations are really building my confidence in the services I'll have to do in the future 8-Ball 10-31-2006 05:25 PM Spread some anti-sieze on a new pair of pad pins...  Lightly cross sanded the face of the pads on a flat surface with 150 grit and checked alignment and orientation.  Installed the pins and the pads and pushed them back flat against the calipers.   Masked it all off and touched up the paint job... one day I'll powder coat the damned thing, but not today.... Ready to install back into the bike...  8-Ball 10-31-2006 05:28 PM Quote:
I used the wood skewers to get the old seals out... the manual recommended wood toothpicks so as not to mar the metal bores... these were the closest thing I had to toothpicks... btw... brake cleaner stings the shlt out of your eyes... just sayin'.... 8-Ball 10-31-2006 05:33 PM I didn't use loctite on the crossover bolts or the pad pins... there wasn't any on there to begin with and the manual didn't say to use any. Is that right? Also, do I use some teflon thread dope on the banjo bolt??? geoffreyt 10-31-2006 05:37 PM I am so impressed. Truly I am. Its so nice to see you do well. Youre gonna know a thing or two by the time this is said and done. Plus, your mess will be working good. How do ya beat that? Anyway, I did clean my wheels real good today. It was tough but I got it done. LittleBear 10-31-2006 05:42 PM Quote:
No dope on the Banjo bolt. The washers should seal it. All aluminum parts, I would not use locktite. 8-Ball 10-31-2006 05:44 PM Bear... thanks.... no dope... got new washers. Geoff... I think I'd rather do this than clean wheels... thanks... I just hope it works now... otherwishe, the next step is to rebuild the master cylinder to the tune of $60...!!! Why don't they just sell the seals for the piston and cylinder??? dwarthog 10-31-2006 05:52 PM I think I saw a couple specks of dirt in one of those pics...... Going back for a second look, be prepared to disassemble and clean it up properly this time. Just kiddin' man, you are running a real clean operation there! Sorry that your first choice in rotor wouldn't do the trick, but it is my opinion you will be far happier with the floating rotor. 8-Ball 10-31-2006 06:25 PM Don... no frikkin' way... spotless!!!! Question... just trying to understand the physics here. If I can pop a piston out with air, I'm wondering why they just don't use air... The brakes feel "soft/spongy" when air is in the system... so, is it that air has a greater rate of compression and would require more pedal travel/longer piston to achieve the same pressure as the more dense, less compressive oil? or is it something else... JamieWG 10-31-2006 07:35 PM Quote:
thatoldbike 10-31-2006 07:47 PM Big trucks have air brakes but they also have to use an onboard compressor and big air tank. Might be hard to hide on the bike  Heat is also a factor with a brake system. Different types of brake fluids can withstand different heat ranges. Heat breaks down brake fluid. When I use to track my Porsche, I had to flush the entire brake system each time because of the excessive heat cause by running around the track (and my poor driving). I normally bleed front and rear brakes on my Harley every 5k miles. It only takes about 45 minutes. My buddy just told me that his '07 SE Ultra calls for Dot4 brake fluid. That is a change from the Dot5 previously required. Dot5 you don't have to worry about it damaging the paint! Good luck 8! If the rebuild doesn't work, try this  8-Ball 10-31-2006 08:09 PM Thanks for the air versus fluid info... makes sense. I would never do business with Performance Machine... heard too many bad service/support stories... Harley isn't doing much better in my book, but at least they have parts available... 8-Ball 11-01-2006 10:23 AM HD parts guy sold me regular washers for banjo bolt washers... didn't realize they have a rubber insert seal... couldn't get it back together last night... LittleBear 11-01-2006 10:28 AM Ask for P/N 41731-88A. That is why I have a parts manual. I take the P/N in and ask for the correct sh1t, or at least ask to see what they are looking at to make sure it is the right part. I have had more than one communication error at the parts counter. A picture really is worth a saved trip back to the shop. LittleBear 11-01-2006 10:40 AM 8-Ball, since you are to the point of working on your bike, a parts catalog on you bike is a worth while investment. If for no other reason to have exploded views of the stuff you are working on. It is like a 3D blueprint, without dimensions, of the bike. I know you know how to read blueprints, you are a designer. LittleBear 11-01-2006 10:44 AM Oh and an FYI on H-D part numbers. First 5 digits are the base part number, 2 digits after the dash are the year the part was introduced, and the alpha charater at the end is the revision of the part. The alpha charater may be different, usually higher, that just means a newer design for the same part or a supplier added for the part. Basicly like the drawing revision on the part. 8-Ball 11-01-2006 10:59 AM How much is a parts book... He was looking at the parts book... course it just looked like a washer in there... and I hadn't taken the washer off of my banjo bolt, so I didn't notice. However, I've never seen a washer like that... pretty distinctive... seems the guy selling it to me, knowing it was for a banjo bolt, would have noticed... He was a nice guy and very helpful... just probably zoned. LittleBear 11-01-2006 11:03 AM Parts book is $50 I beleive but well worth it IMHO. Can order it for less I am sure, just get the part number of the book while you are there. Last two digits after the dash should be the year of your bike. 8-Ball 11-01-2006 11:04 AM Quote:
LittleBear 11-01-2006 11:08 AM Quote:
 Hard to do if you can read. The book states on the front, what bike it is for and they are in clear plastic so you can see it before you open it. You crack me up.  RidingJerry 11-01-2006 11:24 AM Oh man, what a bummer, you used the wrong color rag. Now we got to do it over. +SMSH+ Glad to hear it is going well. Yeah, you got to watch the parts guys. I used to look over their shoulder and make sure they were looking at the right thing. Nowadays, they don't like that too much. Having the parts book is a good idea. Not only does brake fluid sting eyes, it is hard to get rid of the smell on your hands. Oh, don't get it on your beard either. %potstir@ 8-Ball 11-05-2006 03:38 PM Okay... this isn't going well... I got the caliper back together, installed it and the wheel with the new floating rotor, bled the brakes and took it for a ride. I don't feel the chatter any longer, but man does that rotor get hot!!! I barely used the rear on the last portion of the ride, trying to concentrate only on the front brakes. Stop, check the temp. of the front and rear rotors... the fronts are barely warm, while spit sizzles on the rear. I'm confident that the caliper rebuild is correct, the bleed was good, and the rotor is good... So now I disassemble the master cylinder and am checking the parts and notice some wear inside the cylinder bore (more like scratching on the wall near the opening) and matching scratches on the piston. I get some 2000 sandpaper and polish up the bore and do the same to the piston.... looks pretty good... scared that it won't seal with the O'ring but am going to give it a try... I left some of the scratching in the bore, afraid I would go too deep... it is smooth now however. Next I'm cleaning the cartridge and notice the little side fluid ports. One is larger than the other, and I stick a toothpick in the bigger one, no problem. Then I try with the smaller one and I don't feel the point on the other side... maybe the wood is too thick. I strip some stranded wire and pull out one of the strands and try to stick that through... the HOLE DOES NOT GO THROUGH TO THE INSIDE OF THE BORE... is it supposed to, and if so, what is the diameter of the hole... maybe I can twist a small drill through there to open it up... Please HELP... HELP... HELP Alternative is to just go get another bore and piston from the dealer ($70)... don't really want to... 8-Ball 11-05-2006 08:52 PM LittleBear... thanks for the phone help! Base on this conversation, I decide to go get another cartridge (bore and piston). The new cartridge has one large side port and two small side ports. Get it home and open it up (have to in order to install the pushrod) and discover that all three holes are open. So now I'm thinking that that small port is retarding the flow of fluid and causing the drag... at least that is my hope and possible the "smoking gun". I get the master cylinder all back together (there must be an easer way to compress the large spring and set the snap ring... because the way I did it took an act of God, my wife, and some flavorful language). I did notice while the bore and piston were apart that the inside looked prisine and smooth... mine looked like it had gravel running through it. 8-Ball 11-06-2006 12:24 AM What a pain in the ass... Got it installed and bled... I'm not feeling the drag that I was feeling while spinning the wheel by hand nor am I hearing the pad against the rotor... I'm hoping this is a good sign... Going to ride it tomorrow and see what happens... dwarthog 11-06-2006 01:17 AM Quote:
Hope this gets it sorted out for you! 8-Ball 11-08-2006 06:16 PM I've had a chance to ride the bike now and I've got to say, it feels as though I just released the emergency brake!!! Can't believe the improvement in power, don't have to twist the throttle as much while cruising on the hwy., my ass doesn't look quite as fat, and my wife is hinting around for the red bag... just sayin'... The rotor is still hot in comparison to the front rotors, but I'm calling it normal, I'm calling it problem solved! I also want to thank everyone for chiming in and helping me through this. Bear.... thanks for the phone support... and moral support. LittleBear 11-08-2006 10:23 PM Good Job 8-Ball. Wish I could have been there to help, laugh and cuss with you. And don't worry, desipe how the bike rides, your ass is still just as fat. RidingJerry 11-09-2006 10:17 AM Glad you have it. Yes, the rotors will get very hot with just a little braking. It is also interesting hot warm the tires will get while riding. I have found that the rear gets hotter than the front. The rear tire get even hotter while riding two up. 
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#2
03-27-2007, 10:36 PM
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i saw your reverse torx socket on the bench there. it's the wrong tool, but i'm sure it did the job.
__________________
Josh..the Husband of Amy                   CAUTION! You have entered a Harley based forum. Apply a liberal amount of BS repellent to skin before reading anything by anybody. 
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#3
03-27-2007, 10:59 PM
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In order to be used properly, it must be used left-handed and upside-down.
just sayin'
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just sayin'......... Dumbasses "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." (Tacitus, Roman historian 55-117 A.D.) Original 43%er  CAT HERDER  GORGE CROSSER SKYLINE       My buddy!
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